When you were 11, your dream was to become a prima ballerina. At what point did you decide to abandon that dream and pursue acting instead?
I was at an English boarding school that focused on ballet and dance —modern, tap, all kinds of dance— but primarily ballet. One day, a teacher came up to me and said, "You know, you're not a very good dancer, so you might consider becoming an actress instead." I said, "Okay." I was tall, overweight, and had flat feet, so I was happy to join the special drama group.
But had you considered acting as a career beforehand?
No, no. I won the school competition —it was the Drama Cup, which was to everybody's surprise, including mine. That's when the teacher came up to me and said, "Maybe you should think about acting instead." So that's basically how it happened. This school was a dance school, but it also had a special drama group that was more interested in dramatics than dancing. We had one drama class a day and one dance class a day, so it was wonderful training.
Your parents decided to name you Michael, which is typically a male name. Have you ever asked them why they made that decision?
I did ask my father, "Why did you name me Michael?" And he said, "Well, if you had been a boy, we were going to name you Caleb. But since you were a girl, we decided to name you Michael." That's why I'm a little crazy.
Has your first name ever led to misunderstandings or confusion about your gender?
Yes, mostly when I was little. Someone would say, "What is your name, little girl?" And I'd say, "My name is Michael." They didn't believe me. They would ask, "What's your real name? Are you sure your name isn't Michelle or Mickey?" You know, I got a lot of that, but mostly from the grown-ups, not from the other students.
During the early seasons of The Waltons, the famous show you starred in during the 70s, the word ‘Miss' was placed in front of your name in the credits. Was it confusing for the audience too?
Yes, because I had done mostly theater. I lived in Canada, in Toronto, where my youngest son was born, so I raised my kids mostly there. They knew me pretty well in Canada, but they didn't know me in the USA at all. They thought that if they showed a picture of a woman with a little girl, and then the name was Michael Learned, people would be confused. So they asked, "Is it okay with you if we put a ‘Miss' in front of your name?" I said, "Sure."
The first season of The Waltons was commissioned following the success of the TV movie The Homecoming: A Christmas Story, in which the role of Olivia Walton was played by Patricia Neal. Why were you chosen to replace her in the series?
It breaks my heart because they told me Patricia Neal didn't want to do a series. That's why they wanted me to test, and I tested. I was in a restaurant in New York when she came up to me and said, "Hello, I'm Patricia Neal, and blah, blah, blah." I was so flattered because, to me, she was a film star and I was just TV. But we became very good friends, and years later, I said, "Why did you turn the role down?" She replied, "Oh, but my dear, I didn't. They didn't want me." I think it was because she had had a stroke and perhaps they couldn't insure her or something. But I felt terrible for her. She did want to do it.
Was there any animosity between you and Ms. Neal regarding the recasting of the role?
Not at all. She was the most gracious, loving person. We became very close after it all, and I couldn't have asked for a better friend. I never saw a minute of jealousy or anything. If she did feel any, she never showed it to me. She's the one who came up to me when I was in the restaurant to congratulate me.
Why do you think the producers chose you in particular?
I think I got lucky. I had a woman who used to come to the theater. Her name was Ethel Winant, and she was the head of casting for CBS at that time. She had seen my work doing classics and stage work mostly. Years later, another director friend who knew us both said, "She wrestled Fred Silverman to the ground over you." Apparently, he didn't want me; he didn't think I was right for the role. And she kept saying, "You've got to take this person. She's right for it. She'll be perfect." God bless her because it turned my life around.
How was your life back then?
Pretty crazy. I was drinking too much. I was going through a divorce. I was, you know, becoming basically a single mother with three sons. My oldest was 15 and my youngest was nine, I think. We had just moved; it was a really tough time. I drove down in a little VW Bug, stayed at a very cheap motel, auditioned for the role, and got the part. It was like God's hand was on my shoulder.
Can you describe your experience playing Olivia Walton and how you perceived her character's development throughout the TV program?
I got into trouble with the writers sometimes because Earl Hamner, who is the creator and the real John-Boy, wanted Olivia to be perfect. And I said, "They're going to hate Olivia if you make her so perfect. You have to show that at least she scolds the wrong child. Every mother makes mistakes sometimes." I then added, "It doesn't have to be serious. She doesn't have to run over the cat with a car or anything, but she's got to be a little more human." And so they did. Not a lot, but they did give me a kind of sternness, which I liked. She was a little bit judgmental. She wasn't perfect, but she loved her kids. That's easy because I loved mine too. And they're lovable kids, the Waltons. They're now middle-aged, but when they were little, they were just adorable.
How was your relationship with your co-stars?
Ralph Waite and I loved each other. We were never lovers, but we were very close. We were smart, though. We said, "If we take this any further, it could be trouble." So we never did. We were just loving friends. And the kids are still my kids today. They're my second family; I think of them as my own. We love getting together. And Eric Scott, who played Ben, is terrible. He tells the worst jokes, and he cracks us up so much. David Harper, Mary McDonough, Judy Norton —all of us— are close. They're all grown up and have their own kids now, so we don't see each other as much as I would like. But whenever there's a reunion, we all show up.
What were the reasons for your departure from the show after season seven?
You want an honest answer? I was just bored. I talked to Earl about it. I said, "You know, it's so hard to play this perfect person. There's no drama. There's nothing for me to act." And he said, "Well, we just need to have the mom in the scene. She has to be there." Sometimes I'd put in a 15-hour day and just say, "More coffee, John?" You know, that kind of thing. Richard Thomas left the show after five years, so my contract had to be renewed. I did renew it, but finally, I said, "I can't do this anymore. Would you please release me?" And they did. So I didn't offend anybody, thank God.
Didn't you appear as a guest star in the eighth season?
Yes, I did come back. In fact, they shot my scenes in New York because I was living there. I was shooting a series called Nurse. So, at lunchtime, I went from Nurse Mary Benjamin to Olivia and back to Nurse Mary in one day. It was fun.
Have you ever seen the conference where President George H. W. Bush said, "We need to make American families a lot more like the Waltons and a lot less like the Simpsons"?
I don't remember hearing that, but he's right. Well, The Simpsons are fun too, though. That's wonderful. How would I know he even knew who I was? That's really flattering.
After becoming one of the most admired moms on the American small screen, did you find it easy or challenging to secure other meaningful roles?
Well, a little bit. I played a nun in St. Elsewhere, and I played a nurse in the series of the same name. So, obviously, they saw me as a nurturing person, and it took a little while to let that go and just be an actress. But now I think I get chosen for various, more interesting characters. It's hard to play a good person. Good people don't do anything; they're just good.
How do you make those characters interesting?
Soulful looks, I guess. It's all in the eyes, especially on television. But at the end of the day, it's not that interesting, no matter what you do. You've got to find something that makes a good person human.
You starred in Nurse, a TV movie from 1980 that later evolved into a highly successful program. What led to you receiving the offer for the show?
Robert Halmi was the producer. And interestingly enough, he knew my father because they both were working for the Secret Service just after the war in 1950. Halmi was working for the Hungarian Resistance, and my father was working for the OSS at that time, which became the CIA. And all secret, I didn't know any of this. I was just 11 years old. But anyway, he knew my father, and he obviously knew of my work. And also at that time, I was popular with CBS, the network. So he came to me with this book, Nurse. It was an interesting book. And I said: "I'd love to do it."
Can you describe your experience on set?
It was hard. We were shooting in a hospital. When you're shooting in a studio, they can remove a wall and change things around in just a little bit of time. But when you're shooting in a real place, nothing moves. So it took hours sometimes for them to light it and get everything the way they wanted it. Robert Reed kept very much to himself. He was a very, very genteel, very nice man. But we weren't as friendly as Ralph and I were in The Waltons. So it was just a tough shoot. I was very, very tired, and I was relieved when it got canceled. I was partly at fault there.
Why?
I said, "I just can't do this anymore." I can't work 15-hour days because you get so tired you can't rest. It's like when you're working so hard that, when it stops, you're still wired. I just thought I was going to go under. And they canceled the show. I didn't want them to cancel it, but they did.
When they adapted the TV movie into a series, did that impact your approach to the leading role?
Yes, because, again, I had to fight. She's a good woman, but she's got to have some little kink or fault. So I used to tell them, "Make her make a mistake." Not as a nurse, because you don't want anybody to die, but, you know, in her personal life. And they did; they tried very hard to make me happy and to make the series better.