Your grandfather, Neil S. McCarthy, was a prominent attorney for major clients in the film industry, like Howard Hughes and Louis B. Mayer. How did he feel about you wanting to pursue a career in the entertainment industry?
Well, when I first told him I wanted to be an actress, he said, "You stay out of it. It's a filthy business." And I wanted to say, "Grandpa, that's how you made your money." But I didn't want to be rude. So I didn't follow that dream of mine for quite a while, because he had discouraged me from it. And I didn't really admit I wanted to be an actress until I told him again when I was 27 years old, which is very late in starting.
And what did he say then?
He said, "So you want to be an actress?" I said, "Yes, Grandpa." He asked me, "So what are you going to do about it?" (laughs) I replied, "Well, I'm going to take acting lessons. I've heard of this class." He said, "How much are they?" I told him they were like $300 or something. And he said, "So, you've got $300. Now what?" I mean, that was a lot of money to me, and he didn't throw his money around, you know. So I said, "Well, I have to find a night job because the class I want to take is on a Wednesday." He said, "So do you want to go home and get this career of yours?" I was visiting him in Arizona. I had told him I would come and visit him for two weeks. I thought it would be rude of me to arrive and then leave just because I got my $300.
How did things go after he said yes?
He said, "Have Mary get you a ticket." Mary was his new wife. And, as I was coming back to Los Angeles, flying over the city, I looked out of the window, and the thought of failure never occurred to me. I knew I wasn't a great beauty. I knew I didn't have a hot body. But I knew I had something and that I would make it. There was not a doubt in my mind. And when I got home, the phone rang, and it was a man saying he wanted to offer me a job. I said, "Well, Mr. Marks, I can't work for you because I'm going to be studying acting on Wednesdays. I have to get a night job." He said, "So I'm giving you Wednesdays off." I mean, Guido, come on. It's like God was listening, and just everything fell right into place.
Where did you work then?
I worked at a studio as a production assistant, and within a year of studying, I got a contract at Universal Studios. I was there for ten years, and I became the last contract player in the history of Hollywood.
Is it true that at the time a studio arranged a romantic date between you and a young Steven Spielberg?
Boy, you know everything (laughs). Yes, it is true. He had come back from doing a TV movie, and there was a big Hollywood event. I guess he wanted a date with some starlet; I don't know exactly what he wanted. But my picture was sent to 20th Century Fox, where they were arranging the date, and they picked my picture. He came and picked me up. It was sort of an awkward thing. He was a very nice man and told me how he used to sneak into Universal and take an office like it was his own. He sort of hid out in that office for quite a while before they discovered that he didn't really belong there. But we barely spoke to each other. He usually spoke to the producers and directors, and I spoke to other people at the table.
In the mid-70s, you landed your first prominent role in the memorable series Marcus Welby, M.D. You were supposed to be James Brolin's love interest, but I understand the chemistry wasn't as expected. What happened in that situation?
Brolin was very sexy, and they cut my hair off and gave me this new look, but there was no chemistry between us. None. And actors cannot explain or take credit for chemistry—absolutely cannot. Anyway, I got fired. It was fine; I should have been fired. And it had nothing really to do with him; I wasn't good in the role. So they hired some very sexy contract player with long hair, you know, the typical look in those days, and she played his love interest. I think in the show they get married or something. It was totally miscasting for me.
When your contract was terminated, Robert Wagner revitalized your career in a way by offering you the lead role in Switch. How did it feel to go from being almost out of work to starring in a series that would launch your career?
I wasn't getting very many jobs. They were still paying me at Universal, but I knew that if I didn't get this job with Robert Wagner, I was going to be out on the street—Universal let me know that. And the interesting thing is, the description of the character I went to read for was a Natalie Wood lookalike. Well, check it out (laughs)—I hardly looked like Natalie Wood, you know. But Robert Wagner knew what I looked like, and he still wanted to meet me. We just sort of hit it off. There was a sweet chemistry in the room that day I went to read. He was so kind to me, and he knew I was so shy. Just looking at him—I mean, it's Robert Wagner, for God's sake—I would blush and get so nervous. It amused him that I was so taken with him, I think.
Given that your appearance didn't fit the physique du rôle they were looking for, how did they take it?
I had a very, very short haircut at the time, and the producer said, "Well, I don't think she's right for it because she has to do undercover work for us. And that short hair..." And Robert Wagner said, "So? We'll get wigs for her. I like her." So I did a lot of undercover stuff with wigs and costumes. He saved my career. He taught me a great deal—taught me so much.
In what way?
He would make mistakes on purpose in a scene, and he'd come and whisper to me, "Do that funny look you do when you get angry with me. It's your close-up. Go ahead, do it." And I would say, "Oh, okay." So he would apologize to the crew for dropping a prop. He hadn't really dropped it—he did it just to talk to me. And he taught me that all the time. He said, "Now, listen. When you're through with this series, don't do guest spots anymore." I replied, "Why not?" He said, "Because you have a series now, and you'll get your next series, and you'll keep getting your own series. You see, you watch." I listened to what he said, and I stopped doing guest spots. Well, he was right, because I started getting my own series.
Well, talking about your own series, between 1982 and 1988, you played Christine Cagney in the hit show Cagney & Lacey. That role was also played by Loretta Swit in the TV movie and then by Meg Foster during the short first season. There's been a lot of talk about the reasons behind the casting change. What were the real reasons behind it?
I was offered the role first, and I turned it down because I had just done a pilot playing a cop with a male partner, and I just didn't want to keep packing a gun. You know, it just didn't appeal to me. So they offered it to Loretta, and she did the TV movie with Tyne Daly. Because it got good numbers, CBS decided to make it a series. But Loretta had to go back to M*A*S*H. So I was asked to do it again, but I was still under contract to Universal, and I couldn't do a series for anybody outside of Universal. They got Meg Foster, a wonderful, lovely actress. That show only lasted six episodes. And the problem, they say, was that even though Meg and Tyne are both wonderful actors, they were very similar. They needed a contrast between the two characters.
When they came to you for the third time, did you feel you could provide the contrast they were seeking?
Well, I was offered it again, and I said, "I want to see those six episodes because I may not be able to fix this, you know." And I could see the problem—I could see there was a great similarity in their approach: their attitudes, even their physicality, like they would both stand with their hands together. I mean, they didn't realize it, but everything was the same. And I remember watching Tyne. I thought, "Well, if she puts her hands across her chest, I'm going to put mine in my pocket." Anything to make us different and to add a little arrogance to Cagney, because I thought she needed that quality. And Tyne was very generous.
Could you share an example that illustrates that generosity?
Cagney was reckless; she didn't have children, and she didn't have a husband. She was a cop. And I asked Tyne, "When we're entering rooms with our guns drawn, do you mind if I go first?" Well, this was her third time playing Lacey, and she said, "Needless to say, I don't like the question, and I don't like the idea of it. But if you think that's good for the two of us, I will say yes to you." That's how generous an actress she is. It's a small thing, but it's a moment for Cagney, because Mary Beth had a family, and Cagney was a wonderful cop, but she was reckless. And I thought Mary Beth Lacey was not reckless—she had children to stay alive for. And when we did our first photo session, my manager called me over after about an hour of shooting and said, "The chemistry is palpable."